0:16
And we’ll welcome everyone.
We’re super excited for today’s episode.
We have Lori Bessler, who hails from Indiana but lives in Arkansas.
And we’re just so excited to hear about her journey to firing her boss and her, her company, Joy for Me and just how she got here and, and some of the Nuggets.
0:36
And again, our goal is to inform, instruct and inspire those of you that have always thought about striking out on your own, or maybe you’re already out on your own and you just need some Nuggets.
You need some floaties to kind of keep you going and motivate you and just know what goodies are on the other side of, of the, of the grind.
0:55
And that’s our goal with this podcast.
And so we welcome everyone and we welcome our guest, Lori and and Kevin, if you want to take it from here, I know that you and Lori have made a connection together and I’d love to kind of hand off the reins to you to lead the podcast, my brother.
1:12
All right.
Thanks and welcome, Lori.
Great to have you on here.
I I know we met, we met through my wife Marianne.
And so I’m the only Purdue person in this the non Purdue person in this story here.
So yeah, Lori, you went, you went to Purdue.
1:29
That’s where you met my wife Marianne and which is which is how I know you now.
And Jim, you’re a Purdue guy.
So I’m the only Ball State slash IU kind of guy over and.
My baby Mama.
Oh yeah, that’s where we met so.
She did too.
1:45
So yeah, I’m outnumbered for sure.
But anyway, that’s that’s how Lori and I met, actually was just through my wife because they were roommates together at Purdue.
So nice.
And you did off campus or on campus or like in the dorms?
Well, I worked in the dorms.
2:01
I serve food to people.
And I.
Was friends with Marianne’s friends, so we kind of had acquaintance relationship and Fast forward we ended up being roommates and then she ended up being the maid of honor in my wedding.
And Kevin, I think that’s where I actually met you is at my wedding, which is kind of crazy.
2:19
Yeah, yes.
And I think I wasn’t even going to be able to make it.
I finally I figured out how to make it there.
And I don’t even think Mary Ann knew I was coming so.
You didn’t.
I remember her surprise.
Yeah, because you had a boss probably back then, right?
But yeah, and so and Lori’s been Lori has reasons to come to Indiana because she’s you still have family here, correct?
2:42
Yeah, actually about 5 minutes from you guys.
I have, my brother lives there and yeah, I still have family there.
Yeah, so, so every once in a while we get to we get to see Lori and and her family here and haven’t, I haven’t been to Arkansas to to get to Bentonville or every.
2:58
Day someday.
You’re not in Bentonville anymore, are you?
Just about 15 minutes out.
So I’m in actually Bella Vista where the big huge new mountain biking airlift thing has been built.
So you have to come check it out.
3:15
OK, OK.
Yeah, Arkansas, it’s not a, it’s not a state that I know very much about and I don’t think about much.
But obviously when we say I, I know that, I know that, you know, a massive corporation obviously built a, a major headquarters there.
3:32
And it sounds like and knowing that you’ve left corporate clue of where you might have worked.
But I have heard that they have invested a lot into that town and it’s made it very cool for the people that do, you know, move there to work there and so forth.
3:49
Because it probably wasn’t as attractive to move to Bentonville, AR before they showed up.
My guess?
Yeah, no, I agree.
I think when we first moved here, goodness, about 21 years ago now, there was a handful of restaurants, maybe 5, and that’s pretty much all you had to choose from.
4:08
And it was so interesting because everyone from the company ate there.
So you kind of had to look over your shoulder if you ended up talking about work because you knew the whole restaurant was filled with your, your peers.
So, but no, it’s, it’s, it’s been a very fortunate situation.
4:25
Let’s move on to your origin story.
We really love to just hear like before you started your current company Joy for me and we’ll get to that later.
But just what you know, everything or sort of a high level overview of what Gotcha to to Joy for me.
4:40
So you grew up in Indiana, but just moving on from there, went to Purdue and what’d you go to?
What’d you go to Purdue for?
And then where’d you go from there?
All right, and we’ll pray, pray the audio.
So my degree’s actually in hospitality management, so hotel and restaurants, if you will.
5:01
And so that was my main, main intention.
I even did a six month internship in China where I lived and worked in a hotel there.
And that was about my last year.
And when I was in China is when September 11th happened.
5:18
And so that whole industry when I got back kind of taint there wasn’t the recruitment that one would hope no one was traveling all the things right.
If you think back to that period and I had been working part time at Walmart at the time.
5:37
I said, well, this is a pretty good gig.
Let me stick with this for now, you know, and now Fast forward 20 plus years later, I was still there.
But that’s that’s kind of where I started was in the hospitality management.
That was my main go to.
OK.
What was the reaction like over there when that happened?
5:55
I guess since you were seeing it from a totally different country?
It it, it was surreal because we were just seeing it on TV’s but not physically being there.
The folks that we worked with was so supportive trying to check on us.
6:14
Let us call our families.
I mean, they were nothing but supportive and concerned for our well-being, but flying back was a whole new experience of being able to even take souvenirs or fit anything we could get into our suitcases.
6:31
Coming back, it was quite the like, this is all new, the security level and all the things that was kind of shocking when we came back home.
Yeah, interesting.
All right, So once you got back you’ve, you’ve got your degree in hospitality and then you go into, did you go straight to Bentonville?
6:52
Would you go straight into working for large corporate?
Not, not exactly.
I kind of turned left and right a little bit.
And so I have been working in the stores for a number of years.
That’s actually where I met my husband.
I was working in the stores and when I graduated, I was offered to be an assistant manager.
7:15
And so I trained and did that for about a year.
And I quickly found out this wasn’t for me.
Just the salute to all the retail managers out there.
That is a very, very thankless, difficult job.
And I just happened to go back to Purdue.
7:36
They had a session there where they were talking about internal audit as a corporate role, that the way they sold it was you got to travel the country essentially.
And my other degree I started with was accounting.
7:52
So it was kind of a kismet of, OK, I’m with Walmart, this is with Walmart, it can use some of my skills and I get to travel.
Amazing, OK.
And so I took that opportunity and moved to Wisconsin and became a internal auditor at that time.
8:08
So that was kind of corporate, but I was still in the stores every day.
That was the job I had was in the stores still.
Were you and you said and you met your husband when you were prior to moving then, huh?
Yeah.
8:23
Okay, so you moved, did he move with you at that time or?
He did.
He did maybe for a a beer conversation necessarily on the podcast.
But yes, we we he surprised me and actually was willing to up and uproot his life and move with me to Wisconsin.
8:44
He was ever able to transfer with Walmart at the time as well.
OK.
And we had our son in Wisconsin.
Nice.
OK, Yeah.
Wow.
OK.
So then how’d it go from there?
You you worked in the audit group and Wisconsin, but traveled all over.
9:01
Sounds like the US at the time.
Yeah.
So the job looked like Monday.
You were in the office figuring out your week, mapping your course.
We didn’t have, you know, Google Maps back then.
It was all printing MapQuest for the week and we and so we had to pinpoint, we would visit three separate stores in three days time.
9:25
And so sometimes that looked like an 8 hour car ride between the two.
And so we’re kind of Rd.
Warriors essentially, yeah.
And so I’d leave Monday, hope to get back Thursday late evening, and then do it again the next week.
OK.
Yeah.
I spent 15 years as an environmental health and safety person in manufacturing.
9:43
I would travel around to other locations and I was the, you know, I’m here to help.
You know, I’m not the government at least, but at least within the company, I was the guy that was there to try to, you know, see where we can make improvements.
So I assume this was your sort of role, too.
You’re going in these stores and they opened their arms to you and said, please help us figure out how to get better.
10:03
Is that how it went?
Not exactly.
I essentially looked at their books and compared what they physically on the store and I said, did you shrink, did you lose money essentially?
And so there was moments where this young, I would think I was 23 at the time or thereabouts, was essentially telling a 30 year old or a 30 year veteran store manager that he may lose his job over what number I’m handing to him.
10:33
So it’s a very surreal role.
It made you learn how to engage with people in the right way.
But yeah, very difficult.
Nobody wanted us there for sure.
OK, yeah, I did auditing and retail and butts pucker.
10:49
When you walk in, nobody’s excited to see you.
That’s right.
No, they they just wanted it over with.
That was kind of the thing.
Just get out of here, give me our number and get out.
I mean, that was the the feeling.
Sure.
Right.
Well, this, you know, when you think about what you do today, though, it seems like learning how to I guess, have these sort of conversations and how to interact and engage with with people and so forth is probably very beneficial skill that you picked up doing that role.
11:19
Where’d you go from audit or how long did you do auditing?
And then where’d you move from there?
I knew, yeah, I knew an audit that in being in the Wisconsin office, which was satellite from the main hub in Bentonville, was going to limit my career.
11:35
And so we made the decision to seek out a transfer to move more into the corporate headquarters.
So I stayed with audit, but that was our first time moving to actually Bentonville and getting exposure to, you know, corporate America, if you will.
11:53
So I did that for another couple of years.
But as I said it, it still think felt like that thankless job a little bit where nobody wants you around.
You’re essentially tattletaling on them for what they’re doing wrong to everybody.
And it just didn’t fulfill me in the way I had hoped to be filled.
12:12
I like solving problems.
I wanted to help be a part of a solution of these audits, not necessarily tell them, you know what I mean?
Like we would tell them what they did wrong and then we were out.
We didn’t actually help them fix anything.
And I wanted to be a part of fixing it.
And so that’s where I took a role.
12:31
And it was more of a store innovation team at the time.
It was brand spanking new at the time.
And they had a lot of industrial engineers partnering with tech to figure out essentially how to simplify and automate processes in the store.
OK.
12:48
How long did you hang in there on that one?
Oh goodness.
I’m trying to cause the role evolved.
So probably about five years if I remember correctly.
So I did that promoting and changing kind of the focus there within of that particular role, because if you think about a Walmart store, there’s so many different things going on in there.
13:16
So one day we were focused on firearms, right?
Another day we’re focused on baking bread.
Yeah.
So for that particular role, the subject matter changed a lot.
Some days we’d be trying to automate how we sell firearms and other days you’re figuring out how to bake bread faster.
13:38
So it was quite, quite a spectrum of problems that we were trying to solve and again, in partnership with text.
So my particular role was that bridge between the technology teams and these, you know, crazy people with crazy ideas, the innovators and trying to bring those two things to work together for a solution.
14:02
So I was kind of that bridge and that’s where I started to figure out, well, this is an actual job is like project management, what’s that?
And that’s where I started to really take on the skill sets and not realizing it of project management.
OK.
Is that where you when you ended your your time there?
14:20
Was it in project management?
Is that where you spent the most time?
Yes.
So that that afforded me a role in the portfolio management office.
So you know, I can get really nerdy as it relates to this stuff, not as interesting, but you have projects and we have a bunch of projects together.
14:38
You got a portfolio things, right.
I think about a financial portfolio similarly, right.
And so then I moved into more of a portfolio role supporting the team that built the front end of our stores.
So I would manage the budget, I would help them manage projects.
14:57
So it started to build my breadth versus my depth on individual projects and how to kind of oversee a larger spectrum of things at the same time.
All right.
And you spent, you did a couple of stents there, right.
15:13
So your, your first stent with them was pretty long, but then you left and you did something else for a moment and we’ll come back to that.
But how long did you stay the first time and and why did you leave the first time?
Yeah, yeah.
I think that’s the funny part of the story is leaving twice.
15:30
I don’t know if you have a bunch of that.
So my first was 22 years.
I was there.
And to be real clear, I think it’s important to say I love the people.
That’s why I stayed so long.
So even though the work, I kept getting hungry for different poems to solve and different work, what was great is there was so many different parts of the company you could choose from to kind of fulfill that need.
15:55
So but yeah, the first, it was 22 years around that cusp.
I was at that point not only a portfolio leader, had a team of around 30 people, but I was also Chief of staff to some of the senior executives there.
16:14
And right before COVID hit is kind of this time period, we got a new CEO.
And so if you guys have ever experienced that when, you know, there’s a new sheriff in town, that means all his lieutenants are going to change, right?
16:30
And so you start to see these dominoes of evolution occur.
So that’s when my job started to change.
I was trying to figure out where am I going to land when all these dominoes fall?
And then at the same time you had COVID hit.
16:48
So I actually did a really quick stint helping on a special project team to help testing in our parking lot.
So if you remember back to COVID, they were trying to figure out how do we figure out if people have COVID?
And we started testing people all across the country in the parking lots, right?
17:06
There was like a drive through, if you guys remember that.
So I was a part of that process which a new leader had come to our company and noticed my work on that and I was very fortunate he offered me a role there.
So now I’m in product.
17:22
So I went from innovation to more of our first chief product officer came in and we were doing product which for those that don’t, it’s not a physical object, it’s typically more a technology solution is kind of how we think about product in that context.
17:37
But so I did that.
But this was the first time I had to work in multiple time zones.
So now you’ve got, I’m at home remotely like everybody else with two kids trying to do remote school, which bless all the parents with little ones.
17:53
I don’t know how they pulled it off.
Luckily my kids were a little bit older at the time, but still, you have them, you’re trying to feed them and all these things that you know, they’re usually at school, you know, you have to do all that.
I was switching jobs.
I was now working in multiple time zones and I just started hitting a wall of burnout.
18:14
So to answer your question more concisely, Kevin, I got burnt out and I had to leave.
It became a a physical and mental exhaustion point for me.
Gotcha.
Yeah, I gotcha.
And yeah, totally can relate to what you said about new CEOs.
18:31
I’ve had, I’ve worked in various different manufacturing companies and including General Electric.
And more than once we’ve had a new CEO come in and yeah, they’ve got, they’ve got the way they want to run things.
That’s just how it is.
Same with government or anything else.
So they make changes and then we all have to, you know, we adapt and some of us make it through that and some of us, you know, don’t.
18:55
And some of us like those changes or some of us don’t.
So there’s all kinds of things that happen, but we know things are going to change.
So after you, after you left there, what’d you, what’d you go do after that?
You worked in nonprofit, didn’t you?
Yeah, actually took about a seven month sabbatical to heal.
19:12
And I had wanted to pursue other interests because like I said, I was in hospitality.
I ended up in retail for 22 years and I’m like, what am I doing?
What do I want to actually do?
And I always felt fulfilled helping people solve problems, whatever that meant.
19:32
And so I started looking at the nonprofit sector as a potential Ave. for that.
And a couple of friends of mine, old colleagues that were also at Walmart, were now at Walton Enterprises, which essentially is the Waltons private family company.
19:50
OK.
And I took a role helping to lead their grant system.
So essentially still using my transferable skills of technology to help people get money to do good work, essentially, OK.
OK, cool.
20:06
So after seven months, you went back to Walmart?
Well, Walton Enterprises, so I took seven months off. 07 completely off OK.
Yeah, completely off.
Then you was a total.
Shell shock for my mind and body for sure.
And then I got bored essentially and and I figured out, well, I want to try something new.
20:26
And that’s what I tried.
I was at Walton Enterprises for almost about a year.
OK.
And then from there you left to start Joy for me.
Fair question.
I went back to Walmart again.
There OK.
All right, now I’m, I’m up to speed now, OK.
20:44
Yeah, so you’re a glutton for punishment and a slow learner.
Yes, I guess so.
Is that where we’re assessing?
Yeah, we had some other, it was kind of twofold.
We had some other things come up in our family.
I needed to financially support a little bit better because to no surprise, nonprofits don’t make as much, right?
21:03
I think that’s the thing.
And I also wanted to be challenged a little bit more.
So when I went and took the Walt Enterprises role was about 3 or 4 levels below what I left Walmart at.
And so I was wanting a a bigger challenge.
21:21
So I went back, I got a call again from an old colleague that they gave me some hints that they were going to be hiring an international.
And so I took a role leading the product team for sourcing in our international division at Walmart, which was again great because if you remember, I love travelling.
21:41
So now I get to travel not just in the US, but beyond.
So sourcing is this, are you, are you part of the team that you know, we all, we all know like, hey, if you have a product to sell, like say Kevin has cookies or whatever and you go to Walmart, all you hear about is that they are going to beat you up real good as far as getting like we’re going to give you the massive volume opportunity, but you’re going to take a lot less margins to do it.
22:09
Were you on that sort of team or was that totally separate from what you did?
They were my business partners, OK, So I essentially gave them the tools and tech to do that job.
Got it.
OK, all right.
22:25
So what?
So what?
What caused you to fire your boss a second time?
Well, this one’s a bit different, right?
So first was burnout.
Yeah, this one goes back to the same mindset I kind of had when I left.
The first time is I know I want to do something different.
22:44
I can do this, and there’s parts of it I truly enjoy, but I know myself and I’m just not fulfilled.
So it came to an inflection point where I had to decide, do I want to continue down this path?
And I was offered a promotion at the time.
23:00
Yeah.
So I knew it was time to start my own business.
I’ve been thinking about it for about 10 years.
And it was one of the hardest conversations I had to have because here’s a senior leader potentially getting ready to offer me a promotion.
23:16
And I had to go to her and say, just kidding, I’m quitting.
Yeah.
So that one was actually, I had been through this breakup process before and when I think about people firing their boss, it almost feels like divorce if I’m honest, if you’re at a company as long as I was.
23:33
Yeah, right.
Because it’s a relationship and you’re, you’ve, you know, there’s lots of things in your life that are a part of that relationship you had with that company.
And so this time I had been through all that.
So it’s a little easier to RIP the Band-Aid off, but that’s, that’s when I left again.
23:50
And so I guess starting joy for me would probably be the next stage, right?
Yeah, yeah.
And then just to make a comment on on what you just said.
I I know for the people listening to, I mean, you, you chose to do it.
24:08
You chose to do the breakup yourself both times.
Sounds like you know, and again, I’ve worked in like you.
I love the people that I worked with and, and I love the challenges that I had.
And similar to you, it’s my career was like every 18 to 24 months, there was a new opportunity that came up.
24:27
I just happened to work in companies big enough that there were always opportunities.
Not everybody has that either.
So I get that.
But I always look like I’m going to conquer this one.
And like, I loved diving in, learning, growing.
What what did I get from this?
24:43
And then once I did that, well, I was ready for something new.
So that was just kind of every two years for me and and I just happened to like continue to stay long enough that those changes that we talked about earlier happened.
You know, new CEO came into one company I worked for and cleaned house.
25:00
And so I was let go in that group.
You know, we my EHS department, you know they’re going to handle it from corporate, we’ll get by with limited resources.
So OK, and that led me to probably my favorite, one of my favorite careers was after that.
25:16
So it’s kind of like, oh, it’s the end of the world for a second.
No, it’s not.
It actually led to something that was even better.
And then that ended because of COVID.
So things that that happened like this, like I was getting broke up with, you were the one doing the breakup.
And all I’m saying is either way, you know, you got to look at it like it’s probably going to happen one way or the other and either you’re going to do it or they’re going to do it at some point.
25:38
So that’s just the nature I think of especially high achieving jobs.
You know, we get older and we get more expensive and that’s a tough thing for a business too.
So they have to balance, you know, do we bring in new talent, you know, things like that.
But if you could lead us to joy for me, like you said, you’ve been thinking about it for 10 years.
25:59
And so were you thinking about what joy for me is, what you wanted to do.
And maybe you can explain to everybody you know what joy for me is, what you do, how you serve people, how you help them.
And what led you to want to do that?
Yeah, for sure.
26:16
So the context to where joy for me was birthed is I knew I wanted to do something in Wellness.
So the first time I quit, and to be clear the audience, it wasn’t some easy decision.
There was a lot of meat and potatoes to what what happened there.
26:32
But I was really just white boarding with my kids and trying to figure out what am I good at?
What do I like?
At that point, I had no idea.
I knew I wanted to do my own business.
I didn’t know what.
And so we tried to boil the ocean down and I got feedback from family and friends just trying to figure out what can I do and what am I passionate about when you see me, my most joyful, what am I doing that type of conversation.
27:00
And that’s what led me to know somewhere in the Wellness industry that would be that would be my stake in the ground.
I wouldn’t say just pause there for a second because that’s such an awesome question to ask, right?
I heard John Maxwell say that a job is too low of a calling for the human spirit, but what was that question you asked?
27:21
Again?
I think so many people could benefit from just asking themselves that.
If I know what I just said, it was really asking my friends and family, those closest to me when you see me, my most joyful and happy, what am I doing?
27:40
What kind of activities am I doing?
What am I focusing on?
That’s so great.
What lights you want?
Yeah, What lights you have?
That’s a good way to say it, Kevin.
And so taking that and then on the other side of the whiteboard was my skill sets I had, you know, earned and learned over the years.
27:56
OK, how do I put these two things together into something I can be successful at and actually enjoy at the same time?
Yeah.
And that’s, and that’s where I went.
So Wellness is certainly a huge industry I knew, and I think that’s what happens with a lot of small business owners.
28:14
They think they know what they’re going to do and then they start pivoting and learning and adjusting along the journey, right?
You get feedback.
And so my my first intention with joy for me was really to help teachers and nurses and caregivers that they give so much of themselves, but don’t take care of themselves more than the more more. 100%.
28:40
And I so I knew my target persona or target customer was those folks, like seeing them.
I had friends, my sister’s a nurse.
I just knew what it took.
And it was again, back to this thankless job concept that I have felt as well as well, you know, an executive and chief of staff.
29:00
I had been coaching people.
I’ve always been a mentor.
I was an executive coach for a lot of, a lot of years.
And so I’m like, OK, there’s something there.
I can transfer maybe and then I used to facilitate off sites.
So this is like hundreds of people, sometimes for a week long of meet.
29:19
You know, you guys have been to conferences, similar concepts, essentially facilitating an entire conference.
And so OK, so how do I transfer that until I get a retreat?
Is there a Wellness retreat maybe I can pull together?
So I started pulling these concepts of how can I in my little, little world help people and here’s the people I want to help.
29:38
So that’s where joy for me really started to come together is how do I reduce burnout?
That’s our mission.
And strengthen the community by making Wellness affordable, accessible, and interconnected because it’s not just about offering these services.
29:58
When I did a lot of deep dive research for months on the Wellness industry, it’s become such a fad.
It’s one of the biggest growth sectors right in the world right now.
But it’s selling products.
30:14
It is.
It’s selling services and products.
And in a lot of cases, back to the nurses, the caregivers, the teachers, they can’t afford all that stuff, so it’s not really accessible to them.
So that’s where it became my mantra for Joy for me is how do I bring retreats, these coaching services to help them be successful, but in an affordable, accessible way that they can get to those things in their own communities.
30:44
I hope that makes sense.
It does.
I noticed on your website specifically, I put in my notes affordable because that’s not on most coaching and Wellness websites.
They’re really like, oh, this is here’s all of this unbelievable amazing stuff that you’re going to get, you know, cost TBA and then they’ll hit you with the big giant number.
31:12
So I just thought that was very interesting that you put.
I love the mantra empowering everyday heroes and that you had affordable on there.
And so those were the things that stood out to me most when I looked at at your website and stuff and that you have a massive amount of certifications.
31:37
Oh yeah, thanks.
Jim.
Yeah, I mean, it was nice to say I’ve mentored and coached people in the retail industry, but what did I know about life coaching and some of these other things?
So you know it, it probably took goodness four to five months just of researching the Wellness industry, figuring out what skills I can maybe do, and then honing into getting some training and certifications around that niche of where I hoped I could help people.
32:10
Because at the other day, you’re not going to get hired as a life coach if you don’t have any kind of credibility.
So that’s that’s where I was.
Well, it sounded like you project managed yourself.
I did.
Into your business and you went very strategically around it, but I I love the quality of the questions that you ask yourself, which is how can I dot dot dot which most people it’s more like, well, how can I do this like it’s more like I probably can’t but maybe there’s a way and you were very I don’t know so I think that coaching and counseling is probably part of your DNA because you were like, you know, how can we get this done It was just very optimistically sending like how can I make this happen?
33:00
How can I do this?
And I think those are super healthy questions for the audience to hear because that’s where it starts.
Like, I don’t know if I can, but if I could, how could I get this done?
And I just love that process.
Maybe at some point down the road you can help people whiteboard their way out of their jobs because it sounds like that’s a strength zone that you were in essence, counseling and consulting yourself.
33:29
I love that process.
I was way less thought out than you on that.
No, I appreciate you saying that.
I think there’s the pro and con, right?
So there’s the intention.
So I was using my product skills like I don’t want to just offer a solution.
Is there a problem to solve?
33:45
Because that’s a leather death sentences.
People want to do something or solve something or have a product and actually there’s nobody that wants to get it.
You know you is there a problem there to be solved?
And I got so safe in this loop of education, writing my business plan.
34:03
I love finances.
So I bet, you know, three-year PL. and that became a safe zone versus the other side of the coin, right?
When you’re a small business owner, you gotta do everything is marketing.
Oh, I hate it.
I hate that and.
34:18
Kevin loved it.
So he can help you in any way, Yeah.
No, no.
I’ve listened to Kevin’s podcast as well, and it’s like, no, no, like social media is my, you know, friend of me.
I wasn’t on it.
I hadn’t posted on Facebook for at least 12 years and now I’m doing it three times a week.
34:36
So it’s just a different muscle you have to flex as a a business owner is and you can certainly hire some of these things out.
But the whole point of my mantra, as you said, Jim, was affordability.
So there was this big, you know, pull to not spend too much on other things ’cause that would hit the bottom line of what I had to charge to even hit a break even.
35:00
And that actually behind the scene was my mission was break even.
That’s it.
Anybody can go into business for themselves.
That’s not the key.
Like anybody can get married.
The key is staying married, staying in business.
So you have to make money or you’ll be back in that non for profit.
35:18
But yeah, doing that affordably, profitably and yet affordably for other people, that’s tricky.
So yes, how did you do that and how did you intentionally kind of figure out how to stay in business yet, you know, attract the audience that you wanted, that they could afford your services?
35:41
Yeah.
No, I think it’s kind of three pieces. 1 is really knowing your expenses and outlining what is the foundation bare minimum you have to have to operate a business like an LLC, right?
Like there’s certain government requirement things you have to do.
36:00
So kind of figuring out what is that bottom line need to look like as far as expenses was super critical.
I felt like, and God bless the computer and AII don’t know how people did that back in the day when those things weren’t there.
And then, you know, the second thing is doing really a market assessment to understand what is the pricing tearing out there, what’s the pricing structure other people in this arena are doing?
36:31
And one of the biggest aha moments between those two buckets was the capital expenditure side, because a lot of folks had a location.
So I don’t have a location.
I’m doing it mostly via remote.
So that was another thing that saved money, right?
36:47
So it’s just kind of figuring out those two buckets and where you can save the most and then understanding who your customer is, is the third and really knowing what is their affordability.
So even though you have this pricing structure you could do, how do you start asking them?
37:05
Would you pay for this?
So really getting out there and talking to who your core customers are and understanding how do I meet them in the middle?
Well, they’ll pay for the service and I can pay my bills still.
And so that was kind of the three buckets I guess I said I focused on to kind of come to that conclusion.
37:22
However, I still have clients that yell at me that say I’m way, I’m probably 3 or 4 times below market from a comparable standpoint.
And so they keep actually pushing me to charge more, which is kind of funny to me.
37:39
That’s a good zone to be in, right?
And you’re, you’re, you can go national because you do like virtual.
So is the United States, like where is your breath if you if somebody heard this and was living in Canada or living in the nether regions of Indiana or something like that?
37:59
Yeah.
No, it’s a great question.
I do have clients in California, so I have some here locally, but they’re kind of spread all over the US And then when I left Walmart, I kept in contact with a few mentees in India.
38:19
And so they’re not, I haven’t figured out the right legality and financial aspects associated to that, but I do have folks I support in other countries as well.
That’s amazing.
So, Lori, I mean, I’d love to circle back on a couple of things because I know I’ve been letting you know Jim here has been flowing with some good questions and keeping you moving through stuff that just makes me want to go back and just touch a couple things you said.
38:42
One, it sounds like your unique ability, right?
We all have something that we are just wired for and it’s typically not every part of a business that that’s required.
You know, for me, for me, I’m just why I like process, I like systems.
I’m more of the back end sort of operations.
38:59
I do like finance.
So I, I never really talked to a lot of customers when I was in corporate world.
And so that was extremely challenging for me and took more courage when I decided I was going to consider being a coach or when I was pushing my cookie business a little further because I had to go get business.
39:15
And that is not something I was trained to do or comfortable with.
And I learned that about myself.
So for you, I guess, what have you learned about yourself?
It sounds like marketing is not your favorite thing.
It’s definitely not mine.
I would say I like sales even more than I like marketing, which is unique for me.
39:34
But it sounds like your unique abilities are more in the on the finance side or on the project management side, which is not really out front with customers.
And so if that’s true, a lot of people do think about coaching, right?
39:49
It’s kind of a natural thing for people that have gained 20 years of skills in some area and they know that they could go share that with someone.
Whether you become a teacher, professor, a coach, a mentor, something for people that are considering maybe this sort of career like you’ve jumped into.
40:08
And for a person like me and maybe like you, the hardest thing is sometimes.
Getting out there and talking about yourself and promoting your business and doing marketing and then sitting down with people and how did you go about attracting the right people?
Besides your website, besides your Facebook, Did you do something else to go get attention?
40:27
And then someone calls you and you now have a conversation.
Where are you going to get those conversations?
Are you networking?
Are you putting yourself out there physically to like go to places?
How are you getting attention?
There was like 5 questions in there, so I will try and answer them.
40:46
So I think what I said before, one of the first things is learning really who your audience is.
So even though my heart was trying to help teachers and caregivers and that I didn’t have a stake in the ground with a network necessarily, I knew some folks, but I wouldn’t say I had a network in that.
41:05
And so it was really hard to accept at one point.
Like you can help them eventually, but what you know you have a network of is business people and LinkedIn and you know, all the 20 now four years I was in corporate in total.
41:22
How do I tap that resource right?
And So what was a commonality I had kind of aha moments is burnout.
It happens to everybody.
It doesn’t matter if you’re a teacher or you’re working in corporate America.
It’s it’s a thing for a lot of people these days.
And so that I think coming to terms with my own internal story and how I could use that internal story to help other people was a big unlock for me as it relates to then talking about it or marketing it in a way that felt real versus fake ish, if that makes sense.
41:58
And so I sort of pivoted for right now.
I’m still young in my business.
I would say to more target those corporate folks and using my network in that way.
So it first started out with a lot of folks that were just mentees that then converted, which I was very fortunate.
42:17
They were my Guinea pigs, if I’m honest to start out with.
And then the others is so far every instance has been a verbal conversation.
I’ve been out at a salon or a different service and I’m just telling them what I do and some kind of light bulb goes off.
42:38
So that’s actually where I’ve been getting more clients is some of this face to face dialogue.
And so I would tell people, make sure you have your elevator speech just always, everywhere, all the time.
I’m still working through that.
But like never would I have imagined I’m just talking to someone and paying for their services and they in fact need a life coach, which is interesting.
43:01
So that’s why I have found a lot where social media I’ve evolved.
I’ve used that more as my own tool to get my house in order.
And what I mean is how do I create tools and resources again, that are free, affordable, And so I hone more into social media for that reason to create really a library of my story and tools I’ve personally used that I hope will help other people.
43:30
I hope that answered all the questions.
Yeah, they’re good.
I, I, there was one other that I, I wanted to mention something elevator speech so important, You know, even when I lost my role during COVID and I started to like come out of my shell a little bit, I knew I had to start meeting other people for one.
43:46
That way you don’t feel so alone when you, when you aren’t necessarily around a company people like you used to be.
And I, I know I felt that way at first, but then you meet some more people that are in your situation.
And so I got a, I got a, I built a network here in Indianapolis because I’m not from here, mainly because of that reason.
44:05
And they were all people like me that were out of work because of Kovid.
And we all did different things.
And so we’re all looking for different things.
And then part of that was like learning how we each would go out and, and create conversations and meet new people and tell our story.
And that’s not always natural for people is to think about telling your story.
44:24
Typically.
Obviously salespeople love that sort of thing and it’s natural to them.
But for people like you and I, that wasn’t necessarily the most natural thing to do.
So an elevator speech is awesome.
I, I think one of the resources I had learned and maybe this will be helpful to anyone in the audience was a guy named Donald Miller.
44:41
If you haven’t heard of him, he’s written some amazing books, including Story Brand, which is a business that he created.
And he’s just one of the best storytellers there are.
And he has a really great YouTube video where he’s explaining how to do an elevator pitch or create one.
44:57
And it’s literally like one or two quick, simple statements that basically say like who you help and how you help them.
And it’s just, it can be that simple, but I know it’s sometimes hard for people to talk about themselves, but I think that’s an important point you brought up.
45:14
Another one was the pricing.
You know, I’ve had people tell me to like with even my cookies, like you should charge more than you do.
That’s hard for me.
It really is hard for me.
And I don’t think it’s because I don’t value my own product.
I think it’s just hard.
It’s just, it’s just a harder thing for me.
And, and maybe once you get more experience and continue to build more clients, it’s easy just to continue to creep your pricing up and hard to go to a massive jump maybe.
45:41
But I think every single conversation you have and every person you help, you should be thinking about how do I bump the next client starting out at a higher rate than the previous client?
So that’s a good point for people that are thinking about coaching, finding pricing, looking out there and, and how you figured that out.
46:00
I was going to ask you, like on your website, you have an assessment that people can take.
So once you find people and, and they come find you maybe even through their website, like can you, you know, we got a few minutes left here.
Can you kind of take us through like how you start working with somebody?
Do you, you have a retreat sort of thing that people can go to you also, I think do 1 to one coaching and how does the, what are the packages look like?
46:25
Or do they start with your assessment?
What’s the best way for someone to begin working with you?
Tell everybody where they can find you as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Great, great question.
So really the starting point is a discovery call and an assessment.
46:41
So discovery calls free.
The assessment really just asked some basic questions about different aspects of your life, like do you feel like you’re taking care of yourself?
Do you like what you do?
Do you even like your work job?
Or you know, do you feel like you have support around you to be successful?
47:00
So it’s some basic questions just to start to get to know someone a little bit.
And then the other side of that coin I learned later on and added was like, how do they communicate?
What motivates them from an accountabilities perspective?
I knew some of that and I knew how to apply it in corporate America.
47:18
But when you leave that regime of, you know, there’s certain things that motivate people there out in the real world, there’s a lot of other things that motivate people.
So getting to know individuals at their core of what makes them tick, what they like to do and what are they, what are they hoping to achieve?
47:36
Why are they even talking to me?
What, what is the goal in your mind?
And you know, as we start some of these conversations, what they thought their goal is you start to break that down.
And it’s actually, there’s a block.
There’s something going on down here that I need to help unblock for them so they can achieve the goal.
47:54
I mean, that’s the whole thing with life coaching.
It’s really someone to partner with and collaborate with to solve it yourself.
At the end of the day, I try and my goal is to work myself out of a job with individuals because they’ve got the tools to solve it on their own, right?
So to start out, it’s a discovery call.
48:11
Right now I’m in the depths of building the retreat and burnout recovery program.
So I’m still in a design phase for that, OK.
And so that I hope to pull together and have my first trial retreat this year and then start to offer those more consistently next year.
48:34
And this will be it in person somewhere.
Yes.
So one of the other principles I have is in the local community.
And so a lot of folks, they’ll go to retreat somewhere amazing.
It’s a billion dollars, you’re on a beach, it’s awesome and it’s great.
48:51
But when you go back home, you don’t necessarily have the same environment or access that you did experiencing where you were physically.
And so back to affordability and accessibility, the retreat’s going to be in their hometown and it’s going to be about partnering with local Wellness businesses and resources that are affordable or free.
49:15
So there’s an aspect of just educating of how do I teach them what self-care tools they can do for themselves and they can get to it right here at home.
And so it’s kind of bridging that dot within your own community, if that makes sense.
It’s about educating where these folks can get access to free, affordable resources in their own community without having to pay, you know, thousands of dollars to go to Bali or something, which a lot of my target audience can’t afford anyway.
49:45
I love it.
And and this will be a not a cohort situation, right?
This is a one time sort of this group meets at this place this one time.
Or are you planning to make it where?
Man, I, I met like 5 awesome new people while I was there and I want to stay in touch.
50:02
So there’s a whatever, there’s chat, whatever that you can, they can keep their connections and stuff like that.
Are you gonna try to keep those things going, or is it just gonna let it happen naturally?
I love that question.
I hope to have two paths for individuals. 1 is leaving the retreat kind of a package of life coach, so we’ll build a plan for you and then I can help you continue that accountability after the retreat.
50:30
So that’s one, you know, partnership and then the other, to your point, yeah, I want them to build a cohort.
You’re gonna start sharing some really open things in this retreat.
And how do you bridge some partnerships and relationships in that?
So it carries through and they’re supporting themselves amongst each other as they realize they’re on similar journeys and having similar, you know, struggles.
50:53
Yeah, that’s powerful to me.
I’m.
Excited.
You covered a lot.
You covered a lot on prospecting and marketing your business.
That was huge and just the the well thought out way you went to launching this business was super impressive and and you use the term meat and potatoes which is always amazing.
51:18
I make up phrases and words all the time.
That’s Midwest, is it?
I mean, you could like, how can you tell you’re from the Midwest without saying you’re from the Midwest, right?
Touché, touché.
Yes, very, very well said.
So yeah, I think you know you can.
To your last question, Kevin, you can find me.
51:36
I’m, you know, I have the website Joy.
For me, that’s it.
It’s just joyforme.com and I’m on Facebook, LinkedIn, social media, of course, where you can access my posts.
So I post Monday, Wednesday, Friday.
51:52
Right now I’ve got a blog where I’m telling my own burnout story in phases, hoping people can see the signs, because it wasn’t till last year that I even knew that that’s what happened.
Like when you’re in burnout, you don’t even know that’s what’s going on most of the time.
52:11
My wife had to tell me, so she said you’re going to have a heart attack by the time you’re 40 or we’re going to be divorced or both.
Like you have to change careers.
This when you this when you were in retail, Jim?
It was when I was in retail, I was not, I was, I was just like a utility man.
52:31
I was quote UN quote an executive.
But really I just was a regional director of operations and managed 35 locations and everything from hiring and firing to audits to like everything you know.
And they were spread out mostly in Indiana, some in Illinois and just a lot of micromanagement.
52:53
So what got me promoted to be the youngest executive is because I operate with low to no support independently and I was very driven coming out of the military.
And then once I got this big promotion and biggest raise of my life and the coolest title I’ve ever had, within two weeks I decided I was going to quit because it was not what I expected.
53:21
It was a bunch of micromanagement and it was kind of a it’s just asking me to adjust my moral compass right or the good of the company and it just weird.
53:39
My moral compass wasn’t even what it was is now, but it just felt weird.
I just came home and told my wife and said I supposed to be in.
All the credit goes to her because she said I’ll support you in whatever you wanted to do.
You know, that’s a really important point, Jim.
53:57
I should not not mention my support for my husband allowing me to do this.
That’s having a partner that supports you in this journey that’s scary and risky and uncertain is so critical.
I have a couple of friends that have considered the same thing and they may not have that same support to try and pursue that.
54:19
So that’s a really good call out, Jim.
Yeah, Kevin and I have talked about doing an episode and we’re just still trying to talk our wives into doing it on the other side of the entrepreneurial journey, the spousal support and the the good, the bad and the ugly.
54:35
And so we’re we’re he and I are bad at marketing that side of it.
So we’re still trying to work that out.
But we hope that will be a future episode because I think so many people could learn from the other side of it.
Yeah, I totally agree.
We got a, we do have to do the shout out there, the, the gratitude for having a support system, whether it is a spouse or, or brother or best friend or sister, whatever it may be, But having don’t, don’t do these things alone, you know, because it’s, it’s nice to have somebody you can trust in your corner.
55:08
In our cases, it sounds like that’s mainly our spouses and that’s, and that’s awesome.
I, I want to bring you something real quick because I, I wouldn’t, we all handle stress differently.
And, and I got to say, you know, one time our company, when I, where I worked, we got, we got purchased by GE.
55:27
And so there’s an integration, you know, you start your company now is becoming part of another company and there’s just a lot of changes as you’d already talked about whole new leadership level now.
So basically everybody above me was out and I had a whole new layer.
So I was the last layer to stay at that moment.
55:45
And and of course, I have a whole team works for me that that we’re used to the old way.
So I was in this position of I’m trying to balance what the new, my new managers, my new leaders want and me managing my team below.
56:01
That’s from the old company and they’re we’re going to change softwares.
We’re going to change like how we do everything.
And so I’m in the middle of this and I don’t know if it was burned out or not because I don’t, I guess I don’t know the how that felt.
But I can’t tell you.
56:16
One thing that physically happened for a couple of weeks was I started having like eye twitches and I’m like, this might be like this stress, I don’t know.
But never had that again in my life.
And it was only at that time where it was probably the most stressful part of, of dealing with that situation.
56:34
So maybe the stress comes out in different forms.
But yeah, that was strange.
Strange but tough stuff and I’m glad you’re there to help people, Lori, and we really appreciate you sharing how you got here and what you’re doing for people right now.
56:52
And your website, it’s nice, it’s clean, it’s simple, it’s really nice to look through.
I like that you have a free assessment that at least you can go take that and, and and then you can have a free discovery call with you just to kind of get a feel.
I know personalities and everything can be so different.
57:09
So finding the right fit with the right coach is an important thing too.
And, and you’re probably learning that and I’m sure so are your potential clients.
But we appreciate all of this.
Looking forward to maybe hearing about how your first retreat goes when you get that done.
57:27
But this is awesome.
I, I know a lot of people that have thought about becoming a coach or, or are becoming a coach.
I have a neighbor that that worked in corporate and he’s just now starting his, his life coaching business here in our neighborhood.
And so it’s there’s so many people that need the help and I’m glad, I’m glad you’re another one doing that.
57:48
Yeah, and it’s huge.
I could just plug Transformation Academy.
That’s where I got a lot of the training.
And their whole mission is just to help people.
They’ll teach you how to maybe make money on it.
But really it’s all about how do you help people live life?
58:04
And that’s that’s the whole point of a life coach, to be honest.
So thank you so much for the opportunity and I appreciate your patience with some of our Internet snafus today.
So really appreciate you keeping keeping the time with me and thanks for forcing me to talk about myself today.
58:21
That was kind of.
Hard I love it I love your outlook in life I love you have a good spirit about you and nurturing spirit about you and people will benefit from that you know in more than one way so just encourage you to keep the faith keep moving forward keep growing this thing and keep impacting others and we’re just so happy that you guys tuned into another episode of fire your boss.
58:47
Before we go we got to give a shout out to A’s group marketing.
They are sponsor of the podcast and Kevin and I have both benefited not only from their services, but from the relationships that we have with this group.
59:02
And so if you’re a business owner and you got to get that pipeline going and you’ve got to figure out how do I take this service and how do I mark it because maybe I’m terrible at it.
I’m at recovering introvert.
So all three of us go, we suck at marketing, but yet we’re all in business and we all have are still in business though, who can do the heavy lifting If you need to invest into that side of your business, it’s the Hayes Group.
59:30
So look them up hayesgroupmarketing.com.
And I’m just thankful for you, Lori, and sharing your story and being transparent about it.
And I think it’s going to benefit a lot of folks.
And I look forward to connecting with you on LinkedIn as well and, and looking at your burnout Dori.
59:49
And I’m just thankful for you, Kevin, and just you’re a great facilitator and a great mate.
And it was amazing to break bread with you and your wife and get our wives together just so they can commiserate about much of a wreck we are.
1:00:06
And maybe they need their own support group.
I’m supporting you and I.
But anyway, thanks for tuning in guys, to another episode of Fire Your Boss.
We’ll see you next month.
